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The Honorable George W. Bush
President of the United States of America
via e-mail: president@whitehouse.gov
The Honorable Richard Cheney
Vice President of the United States of America
via e-mail: vice.president@whitehouse.gov
Senate Foreign Relations Committee
The Honorable Senator Richard Lugar, Chairman
via e-mail: senator_lugar@lugar.senate.gov
The Honorable Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Ranking Minority Member
via e-mail: Senator@Biden.Senate.gov
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on International Relations
The Honorable Henry J. Hyde, Chairman
Subcommittee on Europe
The Honorable Doug Bereuter, Chairman
via e-mail: HIRC@mail.house.gov
Dear Mr. President,
Dear Mr. Vice President,
Dear Senators and Congressmen,
It has come to my attention that the Polish American Congress and a number of its affiliated organizations have launched a campaign in support of the demands of the government of Poland to introduce visa-free travel for citizens of Poland - without regard to the terms of the Visa Waiver Program - as well as to grant Poland other political and economic favors. Self-appointing themselves as spokespersons of the Polish American community and raising such outrageous claims as the enjoyment of the universal support of 10 million people, the architects of this campaign are lobbying selected U.S. government officials and arranging for letters of support for their proposals.
As a voting American of Polish descent, I am writing this letter to warn you that those claims may be exaggerated and that many members of the Polish American community, such as the signatory of this letter, strongly oppose any diplomatic or economic concessions to Poland given the discriminatory character of its citizenship and passport laws against Polish Americans.
Many law abiding and hard working Polish Americans, including educated and successful professionals, are highly disturbed by the refusal of the government of Poland to recognize their U.S. citizenship and by being treated as Poland's subjects, facing demands that they obtain Polish passports, and being harassed when they visit their families in Poland if they do not comply with such blackmail. Polish law allows to prevent, indefinitely, from leaving the country anyone who is considered a Polish citizen and who does not have a Polish passport. It is an accurate manifestation of Poland's understanding of the concept of law that it often selectively chooses to ignore this regulation, and yet it prefers to retain it on the books as a threat that may whimsically be applied. The government of Poland has been refusing the demands of the international expatriate community to introduce a citizenship renunciation procedure that could be deemed practical by Western standards and it violates the spirit of the 1972 Consular Convention which obligates it to treat all individuals entering Poland with a U.S. passport as Americans, regardless of the alleged Polish citizenship.
We believe that Americans of Polish descent deserve a better treatment. Thus, we appeal to you that no concessions be given to the government of Poland unless and until Polish Americans are allowed to travel to Poland exclusively as citizens of the United States and without fear of humiliation, harassment, and internment until they obtain a passport of a foreign country.
Contrary to the claims of the Polish American Congress, a small and marginalized organization representing narrow special interests of ethnic small businesses that can gain financial rewards from the influx of unskilled workers from Poland, you will enjoy more support of the Polish American community during the coming elections if you address the needs of those people who in addition to being Polish also happen to be the citizens of the United States.
Sincerely,
Regarding:
http://expatpol.com/modules.php?name=Ne
January 25 2004, 14:36:39 UTC 8 years ago
Many countries require that its citizens leave/enter the country using its passports.. i.e., I think you're required to enter/leave the U.S. on an American passport if you are indeed a U.S. citizen, and I think the same holds for Israel. I might be mistaken.
January 25 2004, 14:51:23 UTC 8 years ago
http://www.livejournal.com/community/po
http://www.geocities.com/docudepot/
http://www.cyberexpres.com/display.a
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Sib
To tell you the truth I could not attend the funeral of my mother in Poland because of 6 to 9 month passport waiting period. That should give you idea, how does it translate into practical life. That goes on for about a year now.
January 25 2004, 17:03:22 UTC 8 years ago
This is no different than what US and most other countries require. I have to travel into the US on my US passport, and return to the UK with my UK one.
January 25 2004, 17:28:56 UTC 8 years ago
*dual nationals*
Neither US nor Poland recognise *dual nationals*. Which country do you pay taxes to? The difference may be this: in order to get the new passport I would have to pay Polish government 5 thousand dollars and wait about 9 month, because i left Poland 20 years ago. I am NOT *dual national*. I am US citizen and I can travel to any country in the world except Poland.January 25 2004, 17:51:02 UTC 8 years ago
Re: *dual nationals*
The US DOES recognize dual citizenship: http://travel.state.gov/dualnationaUnless you have renounced Polish citizenship, they will consider you to still be a Polish citizen.
As far as where *I* pay taxes, the US and UK have a tax agreement whereby if I make less thatn $76,000 of earned income per year, I pay only to the UK, but if I make unearned income (such as interest or rental income) or make over that amount, I pay tax to both countries.
January 26 2004, 03:31:59 UTC 8 years ago
UK/US 76K tax agreement is no more. :-(
Actually, our fearless leader and his cronies in congress revoked that. We now have to go through the complicated "Foreign taxes are deductable as are certain living expenses." procedure. For the most part, it works out to about the same, but takes much more time.January 26 2004, 06:37:14 UTC 8 years ago
Re: UK/US 76K tax agreement is no more. :-(
When did THAT happen? I know there was a bill last winter but the clause was not passed.8 years ago
January 26 2004, 19:14:49 UTC 8 years ago
Re: *dual citizens* (was *dual nationals*)
You wrote:"Unless you have renounced Polish citizenship, they will consider you to still be a Polish citizen." *They* is Polish gov. , isn't it?
I agree, that US allows dual citizenship but it certainly does not encourage it.
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.ht
http://www.richw.org/dualcit/cases.h
January 29 2004, 14:06:15 UTC 8 years ago
renouncing Polish citizenship is impossible to complete
This sounds like a nightmare and you have every right to question it. I have a friend who is Polish and he always jokes "once a Pole, always a Pole". He wanted to give up his polish citizenship many years ago and the polish government would not allow him to do that, but that was when Poland was still a communist country. He needed security clearance for his job and eventually got it because the justices have decided the process was impossible to complete. He doesn't go to Poland though. Not anymore. I guess it's his little revenge against the country.http://forums.washingtonpost.com/wpedit
January 29 2004, 13:55:43 UTC 8 years ago
the UK is alone among ..
FYI as I understand it, the UK is alone among the major EU nations that will allow Poles to come and work when the country officially joins the Union. As it is, the area of London I live in is already teaming with Polish speakers.As these usually tend to be gorgeous blondes (genuine or otherwise), I can't really complain, although it does rather suggest that when the gates open for real it will be a case of
'Will the last person to leave Warswaw please turn off the lights.'
http://forums.washingtonpost.com/wpedit
January 29 2004, 14:01:10 UTC 8 years ago
Re: the UK is alone among ..
*scratches head* How are the other countries going to NOT allow Poles in? I mean free movement of labour is one of the very central tenants of the EU. It's kind of the point, really...January 29 2004, 14:12:44 UTC 8 years ago
Re: the UK is alone among ..
I think that I've heard that Holland will limit the "quote" of Poles to 10k a year and then monitor what's going to happen with it.Not that I care much
I am in US
January 30 2004, 13:08:18 UTC 8 years ago
Re:
Juliann: actually there is a huge difference between someone as your self who has 2 passports and a dual national that has also Polish citizenship... The differnce is difficulties in obtaining that passport. Give you one example... Polish law does not recognize foreign first names... One of my Polish friends has changed his first name from Jerzy to George (which is an exact translation), after hearing his name being called so many times with him not being able to recognize the sounding of his name. All his US papers credit cards legal document etc. have him as George Kowalski... When he appied for Polish passport where he included this legal name change document, he was told that he can only obtain a passport under Jerzy Kowalski, since Poland does not recognize foreign first names for their nationals. He also needs to register all his marriagies and divorces as well as children with Polish government ... His Children born OUTSIDE of Poland (in his case US) also are considered Polish national and also need to optain Polish passports... One of the requirments is also provide official locality where person lived or lives in Poland... George (Jerzy) could but his children would need to go thru another process to obtain this.Poles, as was as dual nationals like yourself have an option to drop their other nationality ... In your case this is probably a very simple process of visiting UK Consulate or similar giving up your passport or just signing some papers and you are done ...
Polish Dual national first needs to obtain a Polish passport (see above) then needs fill out bunch of other papers which need to be approved by no other then President of Poland - (with a fee of over $500 for the effort), then when and only when approved peron is no longer considered a Polish citizen by county of Poland.
I for one feel that travel document should be one - that there is enough pages in those documents to note persons other nationalities etc., but that is a perfect world... but if this can not be done, then laws need to be adjusted with the times and serve people.
January 29 2004, 13:42:10 UTC 8 years ago
A "passport trap"
>The thing is still in existence and it’s called a "passport trap".>It allows Polish-Americans to enter Poland on the US passport, but
>it prevents them from leaving Poland without – a Polish passport.
>In other words, the US passport is not valid in Poland for the
>Polish-Americans but for everybody else it is.
Why are they doing this? Don't they realize that people with Polish heritage are most likely to be positively inclined towards the Old Country and could help it a lot? Instead they are treating them worse than complete strangers and making everyone p.o.'ed.
This is really weird stuff!
Elaine
http://forums.washingtonpost.com/wpedit
January 30 2004, 13:17:08 UTC 8 years ago
Re: A "passport trap"
That's what I'm aware as well - that you would be allowed in on any passport - but held in Poland if you tried leaving on non Polish passport... I would have no problem if I was turned around from entering the trap... since with trap in place I would need to wait at least few months in Poland until I could get a Polish passport (and that is very optimistic)... Problem is that many of us can't telecommute (work from home), and our jobs as well as that mortgage payment would not wait for us...January 26 2004, 08:07:46 UTC 8 years ago
Incidentaly the US does *not* recognise dual nationals. If you are a citizen of Mars and also hold a US passport, while in the US you are under US law and treated as a full US citizen. No diplomatic appeals etc., based on your Mars citizenship mean anything. However, I do not know what that means if you say commit a crime on Jupiter, do they extradite you to Mars or the US?
January 26 2004, 11:33:25 UTC 8 years ago
The reason you have to enter the US on the US passport is you are pretending the other one doesn't exist. If you enter on a foriegn passport your American one can be taken away.
However I have entered the UK on my American passport before. Infact I HAVE to leave on it as the airlines now forward your passport details to the Americans, and They can't know I have other passports.
January 26 2004, 19:29:28 UTC 8 years ago
how they would be able to harrass you
It actually happens to 80 persons a year (the number admitted by gov.) Such a person enters Poland on US passport and there is no problem. Then lets say after 2 weeks this person comes to the airport to leave Poland. They look up the place of birth and/or if the last or first name sound Polish. If so they tell this person to get the Polish passport and PESEL (that's a number like Soc. Sec. in US ) Such a procedure takes 6 to 9 months and costs about 5 thousand dollars in fees. During that time you loose your job in US etc.ius sanguinis ("right of the blood"), under which citizenship results from having an American parent or parents.
January 29 2004, 13:48:55 UTC 8 years ago
It completely doesn't make any sense at all
GREATPOUPON wrote:>>That's interesting, what you are saying about the citizenship. Let me ask you a question, if you are not allowed to leave Poland until you get the polish passport and you finally get it, then you would need US visa in that passport to be able to board a plane, no? It wouldn't make any sense to have a passport just to be able to leave Poland if you in reality doesn't live there, would it?<<
You're right about that. It completely doesn't make any sense at all, but that's what the Polish government requires from Polish-Americans. One has to have a Polish passport in order to depart Poland. That's it!
Problem with visas has been "solved" by requiring to produce -- attention, drum roll please: an American passport! :) BTW there are exit border passport checkpoints on the airports with soldier-like uniformed personnel called Border Guards. Now, Polish-Americans absolutely can't use the American passport for identification purposes while in Poland because of the current Polish government regulations. But at the border checkpoint they are required to produce both, Polish and American passport. I guess at the Polish border the Polish law doesn't apply, or something like that.
http://forums.washingtonpost.com/wpedit
January 26 2004, 11:36:07 UTC 8 years ago
Isreal/American
Irish/American
And by law you cannot renounce your american or Canadian for the other. Both countries were sick of their criminals running to the boarder. So for example i HAVE to be Canadian and American.
January 26 2004, 15:40:29 UTC 8 years ago
dual trouble
I have had no problems with my son's dual citizenship. And the US does recognize a dual citizenship between the UK and US:http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web/ac
I have used his UK passport for entering and exiting the UK and his US one for entering and exiting the US. The general rule is that it must be done also with any documentation between the two countries. When dealing with the US, use your US citizenship, when dealing with the UK, you use your UK one.
Its the US that is the picky one about it. To get such a dual citizenship tho the child would need to be born in the UK with a US citizen as a parent. And then to apply for a US passport you need to get the child's birth registered with the US embassy before they touch US soil and before they are a certain age which is either 16 or 18. Not sure there on the age.
January 27 2004, 07:35:50 UTC 8 years ago
You missed one point:
I do not want to be a Polish citizen. It is forced on me against my will. It is almost impossible to renounce Polish citizenship. This process takes a lot of time, money and finally aPolish president must allow me to renounce that citizenship. His decision is final and cannot be appealed. No civilised country has that type of oppressive law. Elswhere, renouncing of ones citizenship is just a formality which can be accomplished without undue cost or problems. In other words: we are enslaved to Polish government by the yoke of their citizenship renounciation law.January 27 2004, 09:14:10 UTC 8 years ago
I did missed one point indeed
Thank you grafiti.I think that I missed several more points yet, but the one you mentioning is crucial.
February 12 2004, 00:14:42 UTC 8 years ago
When a Pole immigrated to the United States, he must've left Poland on a Polish passport. While in the United States, and after gaining U.S. citizenship, wouldn't he (or rather shouldn't he) still be in posession of his Polish passport to be used upon exiting Poland? I realize issues about expiration apply here, but it wasn't specifically mentioned whether the person needs an active passport or simply any Polish passport expired or not(and by the rediculousness of the law it seems they wouldn't care). I realize there might be a plethora of exceptions to this, such as children who did not have passports brought to the United States with their parents, or asylum seekers.
March 28 2004, 06:26:28 UTC 8 years ago
Re: renouncing citizenship.
The Polish gov't works on the following argument: if you were born in Poland (or on Polish soil) then you are Polish. You are thereby "entitled" (and cursed) for all the benefits and pitfalls that it entails.
Personally, I have a Canadian passport and a Polish passport. They both cost me about $75 CDN, and I've had no problems travelling (backpacked through Europe back in 2000, went for a visit in 2003) as long as I use my Canadian passport for every country other than Poland. I will admit that the border guards are especially surly, but 5 minutes of speculative questions is hardly something that one should stress over.
The real kick in the pants was that I feared the mandatory conscription, having left Poland when I was a wee lad, I never got the chance to serve. The potential to be enlisted for a few months when I was supposed to be on vacation was a particularly grevious worry.